Osama bin Ladin, My Conversation

Lol. No, I didn't have a conversation with Osama, as my title would suggest. I had such a wonderful clip of conversation though, that I want to share because I want to remember it.

I said to him, "This might sound weird, but do you think Osama bin Ladin could change?" I meant, his opinions or the fighting, in general. He said, "No, not with the group he's surrounded by," and then he added to that. I said something about how I kept thinking it was possible, for some reason. I said, "I mean, I was very extremist in my beliefs and I changed" and he said yes, but said it was mainly the Taliban group. I said, "I mean, I think they're really sincere about their religious beliefs, but maybe...they would think everyone should have a right to live" and I said, "I don't know why, but I like to think Osama bin Ladin, if he met me, would like me." He said, "He wouldn't like you because of what you..." and I can't remember what it was, but something about how I am, how I live, my lifestyle. I told him how, for some reason, I'd had an interest in Osama, as a person, and had looked him up more than once on wikipedia and said, "I'm interested in him as a personality, you know, a real person and in all of his dimensions." I said, how would it be, to be the most infamous and reviled person in the whole world? and how do you stay hidden? I said, "especially with all of his wives." and then I said, "One of his wives actually divorced him. I mean, how was that?!" and he said, "Yeah, can you imagine service?" or he said something about, "You're served!" for the divorce papers. The idea of serving Osama with these papers. So then I asked, what exactly made him so hateful towards the U.S.? because it must have started with something. And he said, "He didn't always hate the U.S. We trained them, the FBI and CIA, in order for Afghanistan to fight Russia." I said, so what happened? and he said it seems to have started when the U.S. occupied a small part of Saudi Arabia and he was against it and felt it was an unnecessary intrusion. I said, "Well even his own family has cut him off, but maybe he has a couple of sympathetic relatives who secretly send him money." but he agreed yes, his family, in large part, won't even speak of him. He said there at least 10 people in the U.S. who are from the bin Ladin family and they just don't talk about it.

I said, "So who were the people cheering Osama on when 9-11 happened?" and he said it was mainly Palestine. So then I said, "Ohhh...because they don't have any land or anything." He said yes, they lived in terrible conditions and were the most occupied strip of land. I said I'd read that on one side, Israel was against them, but that all the other countries which border, won't even let their own people from the same religion, into their countries. It's like they're trapped in this tiny piece of land. I told him how shocked I was that the other countries wouldn't allow them to immigrate to their countries--it seems cruel.

Oh before that, we talked about Osama and he said it was not even really Osama right now but the egyptian? military leader who is sort of taking the reins of operations.

I don't remember everything exactly but the way he explained a lot of things was very eloquent. Not really taking sides either. He did say, earlier in the evening, that the U.S. was the only country in the world where you couldn't be jailed for what you write. I said true, that per se, you could not be jailed for what you write.

But, I said, people in the U.S. are sneakier and they abuse and use the system, under color of law, to punish people for what they write or say, in a roundabout way. They try to discredit the speaker, they try to find dirt on them, try to have them jailed, and falsely arrest for other things while pretending it has nothign to do with the practice of free speech.

I, personally, have been targeted and attacked, in the U.S., by people who used their friends in law enforcement to punish me. I was first approached with a citation, when I was legally "protesting" clergy abuse, NOT on Abbey property, and in an approved zone, while sitting in a chair next to the sign.

I was told I was offensive to the Catholic church, and then the next citation I got, I was told I shouldn't be protesting peacefully or I would get myself into further trouble. That was when I was given a citation for posting about 6 posters about clergy abuse on telephone poles, when everyone else in the town posted things on telephone poles without penalty, including the Catholic church, for their bazaar. I took photos of this and all the flyers the Catholic church put on cars, without penalty, which was against town ordinance, to prove how I was being singled out.

They dropped all charges, AFTER they found out I had PHOTOS to prove their discrimination and disparate treatment of me, and then I also found out the persons "reporting" me or instructing police to GIVE me these citations, were the Abbey officials.

The same Abbey officials who lied about me, in concert with their Catholic lawyer Dick Whittemore, to then slander me in a newspaper. Which of course, was then used later to show hospital people to claim I had mental issues, even though it was lies, and then it was even used in Canada, against me, by the immigration people.

That's how I have been JAILED in not just the U.S. but Canada as well, and this is NO DIFFERENT from outright jailing someone for what they say or write. I had people use the system and their friends in the system, to punish me for my practice of free speech.

THAT is where all of the problems in my life began. There were no issues before this.

No one from the Abbey, no lawyer, no person, has ever apologized or been held accountable. Then came in the FBI, Catholic and friends to the Abbey lawyers, to sexually assault me, get away with it, and then obstruct justice.

I think Osama bin Ladin would like me. Number one--I know how it is to be passionate about a cause, and to fight against the odds, even if I do not sympathize with HIS particular cause.

Secondly, I know how it is to be hunted, hated, and reviled and defamed when actually, the intention was to help and not harm others.

Thirdly, I know how it is to be ostrasized by family and betrayed. How blood means absolutely nothing when family cares more about their personal reputations than loyalty or empathy or support.

Osama bin Ladin may think I'm immoral, and not approve of my language or content of my speech all the time, but I have quite a lot in common with him and if he looked hard enough, he would see how much he has in common with ME, and that there are others LIKE me, who are Americans, who have seen injustice and absolutely ZERO accountability by the U.S. government.

I have seen people use their own religion, Catholicism or whatever, against someone else, and then point fingers at others, like Muslims and think it's absolutely okay to profile people in THIS religion, but turn a blind eye to what a significant and powerful group of Catholics have done to me.

I think Osama could change, and that the Taliban can change just like the IRA or any other smaller group. And I think, and I believe, in my heart, that Osama would find me charming.

That's what I know. I believe I could get an interview out of Osama, if anyone could, because I have no ulterior motive other than to understand where someone is coming from and what their perspective is.

I would rather have lunch with Osama bin Ladin than the Pope, or anyone in the Vatican, when the Vatican and Holy See has gotten away and concealed crimes for thousands of years, and is sanctioned as being some kind of Swedish Red Cross when they have full knowledge of the actions and crimes of some of their groups. I don't blame normal Catholics, but I blame their leaders, and knowing what I've been through, I know they are corrupt and they use governmnet positions to punish, exile, and bury their "perceived enemies" alive.

I also believe I could persuade him and some of his followers to moderation, and to find a way to end the fighting by understanding how THEIR own children have suffered and died, not from airplane terrorism, but because of being ignored as they are starved, persecuted, and confined. They, as a group, are capable of pursuing a process that is non-violent if the right conditions and agreements were made. It is no different, their "jihaad", from the IRA or Protestant militia's claims of moral or holy or religious justification, for crimes and killing. There is no difference.